Episode 420 - Empowering Real Estate Professionals: A Conversation with Michelle Berman-Mikel - Owner Berman Media PD

As a real estate agent or as a mortgage professional, a lot of them are their own solopreneurs, right? Yes, their, their license is hung somewhere. But it's up to you to go create your own business and it's up to you to go build revenue for yourself.No one's going to go do it for you. And yeah, some agents, I think, go to teams that have really great splits or, hey, yeah, we can provide all these leads just to get their feet wet.But it, to get out of that or to graduate out of that, and to really build a business out of this, you have to go do it yourself.

You're listening to the Real Estate Sessions and I'm your host, Bill Risser. With nearly 25 years in the real estate business, I love to interview industry leaders, up and comers, and really anyone with a story to tell.It's the stories that led my guests to a career in the real estate world that drives me in my 10th year and over 400 episodes of the podcast. And now I hope you enjoy the next journey. Hi, everybody. Welcome to episode 420 of the Real Estate Sessions podcast.As always, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for telling a friend. Today I'm talking to Michelle Berman-Mikel. Michelle has her own company, Beyond the Method.She's got a book coming out, The Black Line, and she has an incredible life story that I can't wait to share with you. So let's get this thing going. Michelle, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me, Bill. I'm really excited.

Yeah, I'm excited to talk with you. I know you're part of a group where Diana's in it and a few other people I've interviewed. Eleni. Right. So, yeah.So it'll be fun to kind of catch up with you. I like every episode I've ever done on the podcast, and this is episode 420. I start with, like, where did you grow up?

Yeah, so I actually grew up in Southern California. So for those of you guys familiar with Anaheim, Fullerton, La Mirada, I was born and raised.I lived there Till I was 18, but I was born and raised in La Mirada, went to La Mirada High School and then ended up actually swimming most of my career in Fullerton. So Fullerton being kind of the big swim part of Southern California. And then, you know, lots of time in Mission Viejo at their pools.Lots of time in Lake Forest, some of the bigger outdoor pools. Irvine was a big pool for us. So I've been all over But I lived in La Mirada.

Give me the name of the swim club you belong to in Fullerton, because I know it was a club.

It was, yes. I swam for Fast Fast Fullerton Aquatic Sports Team, formerly owned and operated by Kevin Perry.He passed away my senior year of high school, right before my entire graduating class was getting ready to go off to college. So it was a tough year for all of us. You know, we'd swam for him.I swam for him personally for about 12 years out of those first 18, all the way from, you know, the developmental program up until I graduated from high school and ended up off on a swimming scholarship to Rutgers. So, you know, Kevin was an integral part of, hey, where are we going to go to school? And here's our options.And you know, growing up in Southern California, swimming was what we did. So it was very interesting to go through that process, which I'm sure we'll talk about. But yeah, I swam for Fullerton Aquatics.So if any of you guys have ever heard of Tyler Clary, he was at one point the world record holder in the 200 meter backstroke and actually won the gold medal in 2012, I think the year I graduated from college. So I actually grew up swimming in that gentleman's lane for most of my time with Fullerton.So I met him when we were like 12, 13 and knew him all the way through. So he's now married and has a little one, I think. Man is retired from swimming, but still does a lot of big swimming related things.

So I need, I need your favorite. I don't want to call it stroke, but it has. There's a different name for it other than your favorite stroke. It's your favorite event. Event.So what was your favorite event?

Yeah, so my favorite event wasn't necessarily what my specialty was, we'll say it that way, but I actually was, you know, most of my career I swam the 200 butterfly, so I was known for being a long distance person. My signature event was the mile. That was actually what I was recruited to swim in college. But I was a butterflyer as well.So I swam the 200 butterfly in the mile.And typically they were on the same day of every swim meet or, or a competition, we call them swim meets, but it was always typically on the same day.So there's been many, many stories and many times in my career where I actually swam the 200 butterfly and then got out of the water and immediately started swimming the mile. So very telling, I think. But it's, you know, for me, butterfly was always My favorite for sure.Love training for it, but I was never a fast twitch muscle person, so, you know, swimming the 50 or the a hundred was never an option for me. So the 200 butterfly it was, but I had the endurance. So that's part of, part of it.

Obviously, I, I, I think I'm speaking for all of us laymen who've never swam like you have. That's, that looks like the absolute toughest stroke there is.I mean, the, the, the, what it does to the shoulders, what it's doing to just the upper body must be crazy. Am I right?

Yeah, you're not wrong. Lots of injuries related to butterfly over the years.I actually, I think the biggest issue, if you will, when it relates to butterfly, especially for swimming it as long as I did, was posture. So I have notoriously terrible posture.Not because I want that to be the case, but just because that is 20 years of being hunched forward in that position. And then also now I sit at home and, you know, sit at my computer and am on zoom all the time. So kind of a terrible combination.But luckily I, I'm sure we'll talk about my husband. Luckily I'm married to a very special human that helps me with that. So it's gotten better.But definitely that would be the bigger issue related to butterfly.

Yeah. Wow, that's. I could talk to you for hours just about that stuff. Growing up in Southern California, I did the same. I was in San Diego.You were just the one county up in Orange County. Really. Or tell your favorite thing about growing up in Southern California.And maybe like the biggest misconception, when people find out you're from Southern California.

Yeah. So my, one of my best friends here, she's actually from the Bronx in New York. And when she met me, she was like, you're from SoCal. Like, no. Right.Like, she just did not believe it for a second.And I, you know, if anybody listening to this knows anybody from New York City, they are their own breed and they, they certainly operate on a different wavelength. And she always says she's like, there's just no way you're from Southern California.Like, my personality, if you, if you know me longer, and I'm sure, Bill, you'll get to know me over the years, but I'm not your quintessential Southern California girl. I don't really dress like one. I don't really act like one. I'm, I'm really not that type of a girl. I do wear rainbows, though.So for anybody listening from San Diego or from Southern California. Like I will not wear any other form of sandalwood. So that's the only California girl in me that's left, I think.But I think the biggest misconception is that we're all kind of airheady, I think, which sounds silly and hopefully it's okay to say that. But I promise you we're really smart.But I do think that you have sort of this, you know, hoity toity vibe sort of personality that is typically associated to that and sort of this airheady reality TV from all the shows. We're not that. At least I'm definitely not that. And you know, my family still lives in Southern California now and my sister does not anymore.But you know, we. We don't like to be lumped into that, I'll say that.

Yeah, yeah. You're now in Tennessee, correct?

We are, yes. So my husband and I live in Clarksville, Tennessee. So for those of you guys familiar with the military, you know that it's where Fort Campbell is.So it's one of the bigger military bases. It's about 45 minutes north of Nashville.

You like Nashville? Do you go, do you head down that way?

We don't go into Nashville. Nashville a ton, I should say. I was actually there yesterday for most of the day.But I have several clients in Nashville, so I tend to go in occasionally to do that. But I will say they have insane coffee shops. They have several really, really good coffee shop, bookstore combinations.I'm a big reader and I love lots of series and different not or different fiction based books. For me it's just a disconnect from reality and a way for me to kind of turn my brain off. And I love hole in the wall coffee.So I will say Nashville has that, but you know, I, I don't. I'm not a big partier. I don't really go out into the scene much. But I do really enjoy country music.I was really born and raised on Tim McGraw and Lee Bryce and a lot of these older country artists. So living in Nashville now, it's really fun because I'm here and I get to go and see all of those people and all of the upcomers.But I think my favorite thing about living in Tennessee is just the land, the space, having green everywhere all year round. We didn't grow up with that, you know, I grew up with two seasons and that was it. And then I lived in Phoenix for several years.So it was very concrete, cactusy type dirt vibes. And now I live in Tennessee where everything is green and beautiful and we have fall and all this color everywhere.And you couldn't, you couldn't take me out of Tennessee anymore, Bill. I'll say that.

Yeah, that's great. I, I like to ask this question a lot of my guests because it's, you know, you were a competitive swimmer at the age of 16.You knew you had a scholarship was coming your way because you were good enough to do that and head on to Rutgers. What was the plan, you know, was, I mean, look, it could have been Olympics.It could have been something big like that, or it could have been something else. I'm curious, what were you thinking at the age of 16? What's Michelle doing?

Yeah, you know, at 16 years old, I think my number one goal was go to college and be a really good swimmer. And I think most people at that time, that's what we were all thinking.You know, all of the, the girls that I grew up swimming with and, and frankly, just gentlemen, gentlemen and ladies, I grew up swimming on a co ed team.Rutgers was an all female team only because about two years prior to my freshman year they had actually cut the men's team as part of the Title 9 situation that was going on at the time. We were, at the time we were also part of the Big east. So it was a little bit different.Now they're not part of the Big East, I believe it's the Big ten, if I'm correct. So a little bit different times. But at 16, for me it was, you know, hey, I gotta get a scholarship.I gotta figure out where I'm going to college and, you know, academically. I grew up in a family of lawyers. My mom was a paralegal for pretty much all 40 years of her professional life.And then my dad was a bankruptcy lawyer. Just retired actually in 2023, in December of 2023.But still sits on boards and still travels the country going to litigation and all that stuff still, even though he's retired. But I, I grew up in a family of, of lawyers. My sister was a high school biology teacher and a chemistry teacher.So for me, I kind of just assumed that that's the route that I was going to go.And a big part of my story, if I can just be super honest with you, Bill, is I am the black sheep of my family in the sense of I did not go to law school. I did get into UNLV law school, but I actually declined and originally went to college thinking I was going to be a physical therapist.That's what I thought.I was going to go to school for at Rutgers and, you know, was very much so interested in the academic side of that, you know, being an athlete and knowing the value of the physical therapist that kept our bodies intact at such a young age at because of the volume of just impact we were putting on our bodies.You know, I knew that there was so much value in who those humans were because they took care of me, that it was fun for me to think about, hey, I want to go take care of other athletes when I become of age to do so. So. I initially entered college with the intent of being a physical therapist.And my freshman year of college, at the very end of that year, I actually changed my major. That's a story for you for sure. But I will say I double majored in journalism and psychology.So my undergrad degree is a double major in journalism and media studies with a intent to double or minor in psychology. But I ended up taking too many credits, so it ended up being a double major.My whole thought process, there was at some point I knew I was going to write a book. And I was really, really confident in that even at such a young age.And the story goes that, you know, my senior year of college when I graduated, I told my dad, I'm going to write a book, dad. But have no idea what it's going to be about. I just know that someday I'm going to figure it out.And I think it's because I have a voice and I have something to say. But once I figure it out, I'll let you know. And that was in 2012. And I do have a book coming out this year, actually in 2025. So we've made it.But black sheep wise there, I think it's just important to understand, like, just because it's what your family does doesn't necessarily mean that it's what you have to do. And I think I'm the tale of that.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I love that you're very open about that. What was your first gig out of school? What did you. What was that first job?

Oh, man. Oh, man. It was awful, Bill. I can't even. Oh, my gosh.So my undergrad degree, as I mentioned, was in journalism and psychology, and my idea was to go write for newspapers. I was going to do sports writing.That's kind of where my head went with the intention of, you know, in the back of my mind, I'm like, well, you can't write about people if you don't understand people. So hence the Psychology degree. And I kind of had this vision of being Aaron Andrews in another life.You know, everyone thinks I'm in somehow related to Chris Berman and no, I am not. But I still get that question today.But I really had this idea that I was going to go write sports articles and travel the country, going to sporting events and be a part of the sporting or sports world. So I actually started working for Bleacher Report and we got $10 an article to write. It was absolutely brutal and it didn't last very long.I think I wrote three or four articles before I quickly realized it was completely unsustainable. So my first real job was actually working for a network marketing corporate firm in Philly.So if you're familiar with the King of Prussia area outside of Philadelphia, I worked for this company.It was, if anybody's ever heard of Sidcor, probably not, but it's a, it's a network marketing type organization where you go door to door for, at businesses to sell something. Right. So in this case, it sounds so horrible when I say it out loud, but it's still really funny to me now looking back on this.But this first job, you know, the, it was 100% commission and I was normally for the most part an introvert, not a super extroverted person, but this job made me an extrovert real quick. But I was selling direct energy door to door at businesses.So I had to go into big shopping complexes, I had to go into big corporate type buildings and ask them for their electric bill to see if I could save them money on their electric bills. And it was kind of wild, but I was very good at it and didn't expect to be very good at it.But I was one of the number one reps in all of the Northeast. And I was still flat broke. Like it was awful. So I'm living in Philly.I think I, you know, my average PayCheck was like 1700 bucks every two weeks, which barely covered my rent, let alone food and all the other stuff that goes into life. So I did that for about two and a half years. A little less than two and a half years. About two. And I got really, I was really good at it. I loved it.I, I got to go to a bunch of different states and go to all the big cities, did core conferences and kind of caught the network marketing bug a little bit. But I found out my dad had stage 4 non Hodgkin's lymphoma and decided that I was going to move home to California.So I Had got out of that job and actually was working for a small interior design company working with real estate agents. So I had to work with the real estate agent who was hiring the stager or the person to come in and design a listing or make it look pretty.And my client was the interior designer that would contract the furniture out from the company that I worked for. And it was just a designed to be a part time type temporary thing to get me home and back to California.Once I officially moved back to California, they didn't want to pay my salary anymore. So I had to quit and ended up at a PR firm in Palm Desert, California.For those of you guys familiar, which is where my parents were and where all my dad's doctor, a lot of my dad's doctors were. So that's how I kind of transitioned into the PR social world was really at that time.

That kind of explains then why Instagram. Right? Especially Instagram for you was part of the picture, the Realtor side of it, helping realtors and lenders with that tool.I've watched a lot of people that work in that space a little bit because it's really important and it's really tough to get agents to use that tool. Right. Can you talk about that a little bit and just what you discovered is you is this part of your life now starts to come around.

Well, what I can tell you, Bill, and May ruffle feathers is that a lot of people who are teaching it and still are teaching it are teaching it wrong and very poorly, in my opinion. And I don't say that to be confrontational, but I do say that to say you have to pay attention to what really matters.And the landscape of social has changed so, so drastically over the last 10 years that what you were or what I was even doing back in 2014 when I started my company, how different that is than what it is today, you know, and I was 24 years old when I started my company. I'll be 35 in about three weeks.And what I can tell you is the 24 year old Michelle was really, really good at one thing and the 35 year old Michelle is still really, really good at that one thing. But now I can actually articulate what that thing is. And I think that's the big difference because in 2014 I was young and I still think I'm young.I hope I still think I'm young in the industry in the sense of I feel like a lot of people still need to hear the message because it hasn't resonated Enough or gotten out enough. That what you are learning and what you're doing, all these social classes and trying to consume all of this information, it's not serving you.And I think that that's a. A big part of my love language and a big part of why I feel like I was put on this planet is really just to disrupt the disruptible. Right.In this sense of like, hey, let's call a spade a spade and say, hey, what you're doing doesn't actually create revenue. And it's not because you.You don't want it to, but it's because you're not doing it with the intentions that your focus should be to connect, and your focus should be to build relationships that you can then take offline. And that's what I do. Right. I'm not a social media coach. I'm a social media prospecting coach.And I think it's really under important to understand the difference.But in 2014, I was trying to lump myself into this world to sort of fit in, and I realized as I tried harder and harder to fit in, I was actually standing out more and more and more, and I've just embraced that.

You focus on ROI way more than anybody else I've ever heard talk about social media. Right. I mean, that's what you're talking about.

100% true. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's. That's key. So as an entrepreneur at a young age, I mean, it's very cool you started your own company. You're doing this.Here you are 11 years later, still moving down this path. There had to be some bumps in the road. Like if you were talking to a brand new someone who had that same fire you have. Right.Because you have to have the fire. You have to swim that many years. What would you tell them?

Yeah. Oh, man. What? I. I would tell them a lot of things. I'll say that.But the younger version of myself was very hungry to feel accepted and to feel needed in an industry that I felt like, needed me. Right. Meaning I. I really saw a hole in the game. People ask me all the time, like, you know, why mortgage and why real estate?And I'll tell you very candidly, I had a love for it already. I bought my first house at 24. But the biggest thing for me was we have to have, essentially we own our own companies. Right.Even though, yes, I do have my own official entity as a real estate agent or as a mortgage professional. A lot of them are their own solopreneurs, right? Yes. Their license is hung somewhere.But it's up to you to go create your own business and it's up to you to go build revenue for yourself. No one's gonna go do it for you.And yeah, some agents I think go to teams that have really great splits or hey, yeah, we can provide all these leads just to get their feet wet. But it to get out of that or to graduate out of that and to really build a business out of this, you have to go do it yourself.So there was something very attractive to me about the grittiness of those types of individuals because that really just is who I am.But I will tell you that that version of me, the 24 year old version of me, was so desperate to just get my voice heard that I was almost afraid to be a disruptor in the space. I was almost like, oh, I don't want to disagree because I want everyone to like me so that enough people will find me.But as my career has evolved, it actually has become very clear to me that my superpower is actually really not agreeing and not in a negative way. I'm not out here to say that what other people are doing is not giving solutions and helping people.But I am saying like my thought process and my philosophy is very different and really rooted in the psychology aspect of why are we doing this right? And the psychological principles behind how we show up and how we connect with human beings and how people like me. Right.Who, you know, I'll share the story. You know, I was bullied most of my middle school and high school life. I really didn't have a ton of friends. I didn't go to prom with a boy.I went with my girlfriends. Like I didn't have, I didn't grow up that way. Right. I didn't have that. I feel like I fit in personality or life, frankly.I went to college, was went from a co ed swim team to an all female team which exasperated that a lot for me and it made it almost 10 times worse because you're in an all female team where everybody's got, you know, their periods and we have hormones and we have like all of our emotions and things that go into being young females.And you just created, for me it just created a bigger disconnect from real relationships and real friendships because I just was almost on the outside looking in all the time. Wasn't the girl invited to the parties, wasn't the one with the boyfriend.Like I was the girl that showed up to swim practice, crushed it, went to class, got an A Went back to practice and was really good in the weight room. Like, that was my identity.And so when I got into the space in 2024 and launched my company, I, I felt like the faster I could get approval from people, the faster my career would grow. And it's not that we don't want approval.It's not that we don't want people to like us, but it's we, we want them to like us for the right reasons and not just because we're good at what we do. We want them to like us because our morals and our ethics and our values align with who they are.And then, oh, by the way, I can help you do this thing in business. So the 24 year old version of me was just trying to fit in anywhere. And today, you know, I have the ability to say no to stuff.And I also have the ability of, of taking a sales call with someone and saying, I don't think we're the right fit. And that's okay.And I'm also at the point as a mom and as a wife now that I'm very confident in, if you don't like me, it's okay because there are people that will. And I think just being confident in who I am, if that, if I would have been that confident at 24, I would have solved a lot of problems for myself.

That last three minutes right there applies to 97% of realtors. I'm going to say that right now they need to know the same things, they need to do the same things. They need to be able to say no. Right.And not just oh no, it's another buyer or seller. I know I can make it work. Yeah, I think that's fair. It's incredibly powerful.Let's talk about, for all you mentioned, your husband and your child, let's talk about that. So where was that in the process? In the flow. So you got this company rolling along. Where, where did that kind of take?

Yeah, so I have, I have a, a fun story and I think it's really relatable whether you're a man or a woman or, you know, married or not married. But a lot of the insecurities in my younger life sort of bled into my relationships because of the nature of it.So my first long term serious boyfriend, I was actually living in Michigan, which is how I ended up. I, I left Philly and went to Michigan during the time I was with that Sid Corps organization, moved to Michigan to be with him.And he still is a friend of mine to this day. We We, Our birthdays are actually 24 hours apart. Um, he's a few years older than me, but he was a professional billiards player.So we traveled the country pretty much going to. To pool bars and, you know, dive bars, playing pool all over the place. And it was really fun, but it was so not me. And it was.I had gained 25, almost 30 pounds in a matter of a year after graduating. So this was the year I graduated from college, going into my first year outside of College, so 2012 to 2013.And it was during that season when my dad called me to tell me that he had stage four non Hodgkin's lymphoma. And so he told me, michelle, I don't care what you do, Just find some sport again. And I. The. I can still remember it very vividly.He said, michelle, I don't even care if it's badminton, just do something. And I joke about that now, but in the moment, it was very serious and it was very, very hard because I was.I had gotten so far away from who I was at that point in such a short period of time. So I actually left that gentleman and unfortunately ended up in a relationship that I thought would be my forever.I'll say it that way in the moment, but I think there were enough red flags that I knew I knew better, but I was still hopeful. But I had gotten into CrossFit, so I became a competitive CrossFitter for about six, almost seven years, about six and a half years.And this gentleman was someone I had met at the CrossFit gym. But it turned into being a very verbally and partially physically abusive relationship.But it was a status symbol for me at the time, meaning I had gotten the hot guy from the CrossFit gym. And I think a lot of people can attest to that. Like, we sort of feel better about ourselves. Oh, I got the guy.But it put me down a spiral, Bill, if I can be honest with you. It was a very, very tough five years of my life. Ultimately left him 80 days before I walked down the aisle to marry him in January of 2018.Still gives me the goosebumps and still pisses me off to this day that I allowed that to be part of my life for such a long time. But the reality is, is that we all face stuff like that, and I think we all do things that we're not proud of. But I'm.I am really proud of who I became out of that relationship, because I actually later that year, so I left my fiance at the Time in January of 2018. And I met my now husband in December of that year. We did not talk when we first met at all. We. He was very shy and very quiet.And I was new to the gym that we met in. So I was not super, you know, out there and talking and chatty. I was kind of sitting off to myself into my. To my own little corner.But I had actually texted my best friend at the time and said, I just met my husband. I guarantee it. And she thought I was. I hope I can say this on your show, Bill, but she said, michelle, you are batshit crazy. Like, absolutely not.And I, you know, because I had. I just had to leave the gym that I was at.And a lot of things had happened over the last year because of my end to the relationship that I had been in. So I had uprooted everything. Like my whole life had changed because of this decision that I made, which I albeit was the right decision.So my girlfriend was like, michelle, just no way. And I said. I said, he's it. I guarantee you he's it. And we mind you, my husband and I, his name is Dave.We had not ever spoken at that point in this is in early December. He went home for Christmas. I went home for Christmas. Come to find out he also is from Southern California.He was actually born in Chino Hills, so, you know, from Southern California, but we didn't know that at the time. We get back from Christmas break, we're in the gym.I think it was January 7th, if I recall, the exact date of 2019 was the first day that we spoke and said hello because there was hardly anybody in the gym because it was right after the holiday and not everybody had come back to the gym yet. And he took a sweatshirt off and he had a giant wolf tattoo on his side. And I. I love tattoos. I have several of my own.And I yelled across the gym at him. I was like, hey, what's your tattoo of? And the rest is pretty much history there. But we started talking. I got very, very nervous.This will be surprising for most, but I got very, very nervous talking to him. So I actually left in the middle of my workout and went home because I was so nervous about talking to him.But later that evening, I sent him a Facebook message just talking to him about his tattoos and saying, sorry, I had to leave. I had to work, right? Those of you guys who are listening this, I just did air quotes. But I had to, quote, work, right?So I sent him a message and just said, hey, I'm sorry. I had to leave. But I, you know, I look forward to seeing you at the gym tomorrow or whatever, whenever you're going to be in there next.And we talked all night until about 9:30, which he had a hard stop at 9:30, that's another story. But we talked until about 9:30 and he said to me at the end of the conversation on the second day. So we talked the whole next day pretty much.He said, any girl that is confident enough to invite me to church and I'm is. Is a yes for me on one condition. You'll go to the shooting range with me when we're done.And you know, for those of you guys who don't know who my husband is, he is a. He is a former Green Beret. He is former special Forces here in at Fort Campbell.And we have a lot of guns in our home and we're, we're big fans of supporting the military and obviously we live in a military town now. But. So yeah, we went to church Sunday morning and then he took me to the shooting range and he moved into my house 24 hours later.So literally after our third day together. And we got married almost exactly two months to the day after that. So we got married at the house on March 7th of 2019.And we have been married now for six and a half years and we have an almost four year old named Knox. And he is the best thing ever.

That's.

But all I gotta say is shoot your shot. And I knew I was right.

You were? Yeah. So the girlfriend was at the wedding, I imagine.

Yeah, yeah. He was our only witness actually.

Okay.

Got married at the courthouse. So she was. Her and her now husband were our only witnesses when we got married legally.And then we did a full big family wedding in Flagstaff, Arizona. Actually, I was supposed to be in 2020 with COVID happening. It was postponed until 2021.So I was actually seven months pregnant with Knox when we have our formal official wedding.

Lots of joking going on there. I'm sure that was.

Oh my gosh. And my husband, his vows, I can't. I. Not a dry eye in the house with his vows for sure.You know, being a father and being someone that, you know, I was carrying his. His son was a very special thing. So it was really, really fun and it's great to look back on it now and say like, hey, I knew.And he kind of laughs and says, I didn't really know, but I kind of knew. And I was like, well, I for sure knew.

That's another book I'M telling you right now. Let's talk about your book, the Black Line.First of all, the name is really intriguing because I, you know, my first thought is like, I could figure that out. Let's see, you know, swimming. No, I mean, well, there's a line in the pool. Okay. That may be it. Why didn't.I was trying to figure it out, but I'm going to just give up and say, tell me the title, what the title is about, and then what the book is about.

Yeah. So I'll tell you. My vision for the book when I decided to write it was I didn't want it to be another one of those entrepreneur books.I didn't want it to feel like another one of those. Pick this book up, you're going to learn all the things that you're not doing, and here's all the reasons why you should be doing them. Right.Which I love those books. Right. I'll tell you. In the sense of High Performance Habits, which was one of the very first business books I ever read.In 2019, actually, when I launched beyond the Method, was one of the most influential books still to this date that I've ever read. Good to great being another one of them with Jim Collins. Like, I. I still talk about the flywheel.It's a big part of even how I built my company and how I built my. My structure. So those books are so powerful and so Val really just so valuable.But for me, there was a little bit of a difference in how I wanted to approach this. So I really wanted it to be a book that created an intersection between Life is really freaking hard in general.And we also have this thing called Shiny Object Syndrome when it comes to creating our careers, where there are things in life that are designed to pull us off our center.So whether that's personally or professionally, and as it relates to social and as it relates to personally, what I can tell you the book does is it parallels the two.So on the personal side, the black line, for me, figuratively, was the black line on the bottom of the pool in the sense of I stared at it long enough to. From one side of the pool to the other side of the pool, confidently did a flip turn.And I knew that if I just followed the line long enough, I would get to the other side. And if I did that 66 times, I completed the mile. Right. Hence the. The event I swam.But on a personal level, there are four main storms that the book documents throughout my life, one of which being my dad's cancer diagnosis. The Other one actually being the end of my CrossFit career. So really was a pivotal moment in my life.It was the only time I've ever been suicidal in my life. And it was a very, very dark time for me. And I ended up meeting my now husband about two months later.So there's a really special storm there that I think a lot of people can relate to. And then the third big one being the miscarriage that I had in November of last year.So my husband and I had been trying for quite some time, ended up finally getting pregnant, which was a miracle by itself, and lost our baby. I was just shy of 10 weeks. I was a little over nine weeks. And it was the darkest time of my entire life. Still, I just don't.There's nothing I could even compare to it. So the, the personal stories or the storms, right, are designed to be a way for people in their life to say, what is that black line for me?What is that thing that I can get back to that's going to get me out of what I'm in? And for me, that's God and my faith. I am a very much so a faith based and driven human. And I truly believe in the power of the Holy Spirit.And I have a saying that I talk a lot about, which is God gives us a mess to give us a message. And what is the mess and what's the message?A lot of the times we don't know when the mess is happening or when it's going to come, but we always know that there's something that we can trust to come out of it. And there are a ton of messages that came out of all of the storms that I document in the book.But the whole premise of it parallels the social media side, which is, you know, you go and you take all these classes, which one of the things I love to do when I do a keynote anywhere is I'll say how many people in the room have taken a social media class recently? You know, everybody raises their hand and then I'll say, okay, how many of you have taken two or three in the last few months?And I swear the whole room still raises their hand.And I my promise to them is at the end of my session with them, they will never have to take another social media class again because the black line is now laid out in front of them.So the black line is what I now call beyond the method, the course itself or the black line approach being the methodology that is built into beyond the method, which is I have the straight Line. I know exactly what to do. I know exactly how to get you from where you currently are to actually making money off of social.And it's not what you think because it's not all the flashy stuff.And so the black line is that visual metronome, in this case being the plan or beyond the method, being the name of the course that I created in 2019.

I love the phrase visual metronome. You know, just staying in rhythm. Right. Just don't, don't, don't, don't get off track.

But it is very easy. It is very, very easy, too. And. And the. The swimming analogy was very special to me. Very relatable to people.The lane lines, you know, lane lines are designed to keep us from going off into the next person's lane. Keeps you from going in the straightest line as possible from one side to the other side.So I always say, you know, the other social classes are trying to piecemeal this and this and this and all these different strategies together and to try to turn that into your own. It's like swimming in a pool with no lane lines. Like, you're just screwed. Like you really just are. And most likely you're going to end up at one.Start on one side of the pool and end up totally diagonal way the heck over there and wonder why it took you so long. And I think that's the visual analogy I was trying to create.But the COVID which has not been released yet, the COVID I can tell you, is so beautiful, in my opinion, but it's really this mixture of hope and darkness and kind of all of that, how that comes together to create this beautiful story. And my goal is that someone picks it up and doesn't say, oh, this is just another entrepreneur book.Instead, they pick it up and they say, what is this? Exactly what you said when you went to. To kind of start the conversation. I want that.I want them to up and be like, I'm so intrigued because I don't know where this is going.

Yeah. You started a podcast.

I did.

How do you like it?

Oh, I like it.

You like doing it? Good, good. I. I like talking to other podcasters. Tell me, tell me what put you down that path. Right. What was the thought process there?Because obviously, for beyond the method. Right. For your. For your instruction. Right. And how to. How to handle social and how to work this stuff out in a better way.It's always good to have a podcast because more people are going to hear about that. But I imagine there's a part of you that just wants to learn more about people as well?

Yeah. Oh.A huge part of me was just, I'm just curious about other people and want to learn about how other people are doing things and also have really insightful conversations with people that I feel like can move a needle. So I was very strategic about how I launched the podcast as far as guests.And when I chose to build the podcast, my mind was, I did, or my thought process was, I don't want this to just be another podcast about social, because that's not what this is. I really wanted it to be very, very directed at prospecting and how do we use social as a prospecting tool. So I've been very selective.Some better than others, you know, some I thought would go better than they did, and then some that went better than I could have ever expected them to go.But what I can tell you the podcast has turned into for me is really a strategic alliance play, because there's a lot of people who I feel like I need to know because I understand the value of what they're doing, and I align so hardcore with that and with what they're doing that I'm like, how do I build the building blocks to get to them? And that's part of the podcast for me now is it's a.I don't want to say it's a strategic play to, like, get in front of them, but really that's what it came down to, right, Is my ability to build a relationship with someone that could then create the next relationship and then create the next relationship, but do it from a place of value and not from a place of, hey, I just want to earn your business.But I think because of the way I've gone about it, it's been so wildly successful for me because at the end of the day, to my very core, I am a relationship person. I want to be friends with everyone. I really want that. And so I always use the podcast as a way for me to really get to know somebody first.If they're somebody who I think I need to work with or I think I can add value to their company. If I feel like maybe there's a moral or ethic match, I will invite them onto the show.And based off of how the show goes, that gives me the intuition of yes or no. Do I pursue this relationship or do I not?

Yeah.

And so it's really become a very strategic alliance type opportunity for me. You know, I've had. I think I just recorded episode 77 this Morning, which is great.But really, what started off as more of a side gig, like, I'll get to this when I get to this, and I'll interview a couple of cool people here and there, which will create some snowball, has turned into one of the funnest things I've ever done.

Yeah.

And just some of the coolest friendships that still to this day, I'm like, you're way too cool for me. But I really appreciate it.

You know, look, there you have 77 people you can reach out to. If you have a question about something or you need an answer, whatever it is, they're there.And that's, for me, that's exactly why the podcast was kind of created, was a way for me to connect with people in the industry that's going to help me help others. And the ability to be able to go back. And now the ability to go back and reach back to you. Right.If I have somebody who hits maybe a storm, I say, I got somebody maybe you could talk to. My guess is you would probably talk to that person.

Thousand percent. Absolutely. All the time. I love getting those DMS on, on social, whether it's on Instagram, Facebook or LinkedIn, you know, I get them.And people say, I heard you on this show, and, yeah, holy smokes. Like, your story just res. I had. I got a message very recently, and it really hit me, like, cry tears hit me.But the gentleman was like, you know, I just wanted to reach out to you. I heard about your dad's story, you know, the story I tell about my dad, and. And it. It's a very loaded story.But what I can tell you is my dad called me while I was living in Michigan. I had just gotten home from work, and he said sort of the story I mentioned, but on a. On a bigger, deeper scale.He basically mentioned to me or told me on the call that he was given six months to live. Really? That was. That was about the guess. Right. But they couldn't guarantee that. That, you know, the prognosis was not good, but they.They were confident that they couldn't. Could maximize his life and that there were ways to. To get out of it, but it was going to be an uphill battle.So I sat down on my couch, and I just remember sitting there thinking, like, oh, my God, I have to go home. I have to fly home. I have to leave Michigan, and I have to get home, back to my. To my family.But the gentleman who DMed me, he heard the story about, you know, my dad saying to me, like, go back to being who you are and get closer to the daughter that I raised and, you know, find. Find sports again and all of these things. And.But the gentleman that DM'd me, he heard that whole story and he said to me, like, my dad has the exact same cancer right now and told me all this stuff about him personally and the backstory going into it. And he is in real estate and has been in real estate for several years. Said he wanted to quit.He was really just like, with everything that was going on, he was like, I'm done with doing this. Like, I think I just need to go take care of my dad.And I said in the message, I said, I'd love to get on a call with you if you feel like what I do might help you. He did not end up buying coaching, but what I can tell you is he did end up solving his problem, right? He did not quit real estate.He actually still does real estate today.

Wow.

But what he needed was permission to be okay not being okay, but to do it anyway, right? And to find a reason to get back to who he was. And. And I said to him, I said, your dad would not want you to quit, right? Your dad wouldn't want that.Because I'm assuming your dad is probably like my dad based off this conversation that we're having. And what my dad wanted was for me to just be the daughter that he raised. And it was really impactful for me.He did end up hiring me for, like, one on one, a couple of one on ones. But it turned out to be truly more of a therapy session for him than actually coaching him. But I'm really proud of. I'm proud of that.I'm proud of the fact that that's what happens out of, you know, doing things correctly. But I also think sharing your stories and being on podcasts like this at this time with you even is. We are people, right?We are real people going through real stuff, but we also need reminders that we don't have. We don't need excuses. There's not time for that, Right?And so I love podcasting because I think it allows us to have a voice, allows us for people to hear our emotions and our thoughts and our feelings, but also hear how good we are at what we do, hopefully, and realize that, yeah, that's my person, right?That's the person I want to work with, or, yeah, that's the realtor I need to hire, or, yeah, that's the social person I need to hire or whoever it is. But I don't Think you can get that from still content the way that you can when you listen to it on a podcast?

Totally agree. Look, I'm watching the clock because I got to get you going.The final question I've asked every guest and whether they've been in real estate or not, I love these answers. What one piece of advice would you give a new agent? Just getting started.

Oh, my gosh, I love that question. I would tell you you do not need to do what everybody else is doing. That is a farce, right? That is so far from true.And you know, with what I do specifically. Again, I'm a social media prospecting coach. I am not a social media coach. They are very different. One is strategy based, based off of content, right?Meaning one of them on the social coaching side. What a social media coach does is they teach you how to create a content strategy.What a social media prospecting coach, which is who I am, does, is we teach you how to create a conversion strategy. They are very, very, very different, right? So what I would tell that younger agent especially is you do not need a bunch of social media classes.You do not need to focus on algorithmic changes or trends. And you also do not need to go look up the best realtor in your area and be like, oh, that person is doing this, so therefore I will too, right?That is not the answer. The answer is, who are you? Two things. Three things, really. One, who are you? Right.Most of you came out of something prior to getting into real estate. Very common, right? They came from a previous career. Real estate is not typically their first thing or their first gig, right?Which means you came from somewhere. So what primary skills did you acquire during that time? And how can you bring that into your content? Right? That's. That's a big piece of it.And then secondly, be a person in your content, right? I am a mom. I am a wife. I have been through really hard things in my life and I am not afraid to share them.I, you know, yes, I have boundaries and lines and things, but at the same time, I understand and just actually built for. For conversation sake. I literally, just this morning before I was on here with you, interviewed a gentleman who is a master storyteller on.So that is how he wins. That's how he's created all of his opportunity. Not by posting mortgage content. Not by posting real estate market updates.Not by posting, you know, in house marketing flyers of the five steps to the home buying process, or here's the spring cleaning checklist. Like none of that crap, right? But storytelling his way through to building opportunity and creating relationships.So I would tell the person listening to this that one, you don't need to follow the trends.You don't need to follow what other people are doing and take that as the holy grail, because at the end of the day, those people do not have the experiences that you do. You have your own primary skills from a previous career or from a previous life. Right. What have.What has life thrown at you that you can bring into it? And then secondly, you need to show up as a human being. And the third thing I can tell you is do your best to. To take this and run with it.But what I want you to do is every single day for 365 days of the year, send a message to someone that you do not know on purpose. Make that decision. I am waking up every morning. And Bill, you're one of them. Right. I sent a message to you. I did not know you. Yeah.But I had a relationship with several other women who did. And I said, I don't know Bill, but knows who these people are, and I have a great friendship and relationship with them.So Bill will probably say, sure, I'd love to get to know you based off of those relationships. So if you can understand the power of leverage and how to create it and then execute on it. Right.Meaning the execution is every single day, you wake up and you send a message to someone you do not know. Very on purpose, very intentionally, but strategically, with a game plan of. Of, hey, what is this message? Or what is this person on the other side?Where do they fit into my flywheel? Right. For Jim Collins's sake, to give credit where credit's due. Right. Where do they fit into my flywheel? But the homework assignment is very simple.Send a message every single day to someone that you do not know. And if you can do it through leverage, your business, your life, your career will not look the same a year from now. And that is not a.That's not theory, that is fact. And I am living, breathing proof of that exact thing, because virality has never been my game.I've never gone viral once in my career, and I don't anticipate it ever happening, because that's not what the point of it is.

Yeah, this is fantastic, Michelle, if somebody wants to reach out to you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Oh, man. Easy. Instagram or LinkedIn. Instagram is my favorite platform to be on, but I'm. I'm very active on LinkedIn too. Really?All three Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn for that matter. But I would say send me a message. I'll tell you. I answer all my own messages. So if you send me one, you will hear back from me. It is not AI.It is not a va, it is me. So that's really important to me, too. But, and then as far as like, you know, what do I have coming up there? I don't.I, I have several big speaking opportunities coming up. I'll be at Mastermind Summit if you, any of your listeners are going to be there. That's at the end of June.More on the mortgage side, but there's a lot of real estate agents going.But I will also be speaking at Momentum Builder Sales Mastery later this year, which is the merger between Todd Duncan and the Momentum Builder organization. I'll be speaking of that in Dallas. So really cool opportunities coming up for me.But my favorite thing is when people message me and say, hey, I heard you on Bill show or, you know, whatever, because then I get to reach out to you, Bill, and say, hey, look at the messages that I've gotten. So, yeah, that's my favorite, favorite thing to do. So if you're hearing Bill and I tell us that you heard it, we heard Michelle.

This has been great. I'm getting so much good stuff out of that Mastermind group. I love it. I'll just keep working through there.I think ultimately that's what I'll end up doing.So thanks so much, really, for being so open for what you've shared with us today and continued success because it's been really fun to kind of see what you've been doing. And as I was doing a little research and I can't wait to see what comes next.

Oh, my gosh. Well, I appreciate that so much, Bill, and just more than I can say, just thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.